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Re: I know you're smoking something . . .

Posted By: J242 (76.22.80.189)
Date: Sunday, 9 September 2007, at 7:39 p.m.

In Response To: Re: I know you're smoking something . . . (Lord Crosis)

: Actually large companies would give almost anything to be able to hear and
: glean insight from what the public says. Most large companies hire people
: and/or companies to research what their customers (or potential customers)
: have to say. Believe-it-or-not this often includes reading what people say
: on public forums.

Well, that may be what you think but you overestimate the actual intent of these groups to truly implement anything the public wanted. I manage beta programs and all of the "feature requests" or "DCR's" are called black-hole bugs because they'll disappear and no one will ever see them again even though we are openly requesting feedback and recommendations. This is so that the devs (and more importantly the PMs) can look into future versions and decide if it makes good business sense to introduce the features in question. Also, they only actually pay attention when there are close to triple digits (roughly 1% of the testing populace for MS) all voicing support for it. More often than not, even then they will scrap it as one or two pet projects will be taking all the limelight and will push back development (Think OSX.5 and the iPhone, it's an almost textbook example except Apple actually delivered a product out of the delay, we'll see if they can live up to their claim of this fall for .5) across the other projects. I have personally had to go into "WAR" meetings and fight for a feature to get looked at or even to have a bug fixed because the official word was that it "didn't have enough customer impact" or some other such nonsense for the most common issues that EVERYONE hates. It's not a logical system unfortunately and there are so many people involved that almost any effort from the base level for feedback is wasted. That's the simple truth of the matter and it really sucks but knowing this I don't find myself getting my hopes up too high anymore.

: When Apple does something wrong, it's perfectly fine to point a finger and
: say "shame on you",

So what are your thoughts on rude, ridiculous behavior where the person is "cussing out" the CEO of a company? That's hardly "Tsk Tsk" with a wag of the finger is it? I kind of see that behavior on par with the disheveled messes stumbling out of bars at 2:30 in the morning far more than I do someone simply pointing a finger and expressing their discontent.

: regardless of whether or not anyone else is
: doing it. And what better place to do it than in a forum intended for the
: discussion of Apple products. Apple and Nintendo are my two favorite
: companies. I generally appreciate their corporate philosophies, and I
: really like most of their products and their directions for the future.
: But any time I see one of them do something wrong or stupid, even if
: others are doing the same thing, I am disappointed... and I just might
: bitch about it a little.

That's fine, you aren't the one I have a problem with on this. You tend to state your thoughts clearly, concisely and without falling back on belittling the person disagreeing with you. I'm trying to get to that point myself (slow progress surely and nowhere near there yet! lol) so the previous bits in this thread seem so far over the top as to be almost comical.

: That's actually how it works. Not that Steve himself necessarily reads this
: particular site every day, but lots of people do, and what we say here may
: affect someone's thinking on a topic...

Nothing personal here crosis, but I hardly consider the 24 views of JT's initial post in this thread to be "lots". Now, back in the days of the build your own G4 article and whatnot, these hit counts were in the lower stratosphere in comparison and then I think anything posted might have more weight but these days? Sorry, I don't agree on that one. i think it's basically just us bitching at each other and the world moves on almost entirely unaware of our conversations.

: Which they will take with them
: elsewhere, and will discuss elsewhere, and eventually "what people
: are saying" definitely makes it back to Apple. As much as people
: value their individuality, we are somewhat of a collective. The only way
: to affect the thoughts of the collective, or to bring clarity to them, is
: to discuss them.

Again, I think you are seriously overestimating the traffic that comes in here and actually reads what we talk about.

: Anything a company says about it's products is subject to false advertising
: laws. Whether or not Apple's lawyers will be able to pull their collective
: ass out of this one is yet to be seen. I hope they fail. This is bullshit,
: and I want a new screen.

I'm guessing you've missed out on this entire "entertainment" trend in marketing over the past couple of decades then. Viral content with no mention of the product and outrageous claims going so far as to suggest that a "male enhancement pill" will make your job better, house easier to maintain and children better behaved all magically seem to be the norm these days. I agree that there SHOULD be honesty in marketing but that flew out the window the moment politicians and churches were able to advertise themselves.

: Well, the only computer I've bought from Apple in the last 8 or so years is a
: MacBook Pro. If my mom comes to me looking for a computer recommendation,
: that's not the one I'm going to tell her she should get. And in fact, when
: she came to me about a year and a half ago, I recommended she get a Mac
: Mini. Even though I've never owned one. It was a good recommendation. I'm
: not sure I could have lived with myself (or I would have been horribly
: unsuccessful) as a sales person if I had your philosophy. If I know enough
: about a company in general, have broad experience with their products, and
: have read and understand the technical specifications of the product, I
: will be comfortable recommending or not recommending a product.

I love my mac minis. They work just fine for me, but depending on the use I might or might not recommend them to someone else, however I have direct experience with them. However, I wouldn't recommend one of the new iPod Nanos to someone without trying it out myself first and seeing how it "felt" and to get an idea of the new UI and how it handles compared to the old UI...

: They advertised it right here: http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html

Oh, you mean it's advertising it when they say: "15.4-inch (diagonal) TFT LED backlit display with support for millions of colors; optional glossy widescreen display"

it doesn't say it produces or displays millions of colors it says it has support for them which automatically causes flags to go up in my mind. If I'm buying a product for a specific reason and it only says that it "supports" said feature, I'm going to want to check it out and see what the deal is first. Damn, thinking for myself, what a horrible concept.

: Anything claim a company makes about its product is advertising. If you want
: the definitive source on the definition of "Advertise" I would
: refer you to the Oxford English Dictionary (

Since when did a definition actually hold any merit in PR unless it's to try and redefine it? I understand your point and agree with you, I'm just not so naive as to believe that massive profit-based corporations hold the same beliefs over their own pocketbooks. I'm also not naive enough to believe for even a nanosecond that at this point in history we actually have ANY power over the choices of the major companies. Just take Wal-Mart as an example, they destroy economies and ruin lives without a care in the world, yet what's getting the attention? Apple dropped the price really early and really substantionally. There's a seriously skewed perspective over this in this country and I for one have no desire to add my voice to the throngs of greedy jackasses pissed off that they bought a viable product that they felt was worth it's cost initially and got up in arms after it was lowered. Fuck them and the SUV they rode in on.

I'm just being a realist here and saying that while I personally feel Apple is a much better company both product wise and ethically than the overwhelming bulk of their competition, I know that if given the chance, they'll try to get every cent they can out of me. It's nothing personal, that's just the way it is and at least they have the class to admit fault well before it became a legal necessity to do so. I feel it was a fairly honest apology on behalf of Jobs but I think he said it best when he said: "If you always wait for the next price cut or to buy the new improved model, you'll never buy any technology product because there is always something better and less expensive on the horizon.".

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